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Americanpilot89

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I remember seeing some pictures toward the beginning of the screen shot posts that included some cloud shadow shafts but haven't noticed them in the later photos.  I know it is still a work in progress, but wonder if that was something that was still planning to be implemented.  That particular feature isn't listed on the road map or the change logs.

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"Crepuscular rays" are somewhat similar to what I think you're talking about (Googleing "cloud shadow shafts" leads to the Wikipedia page for Crepuscular Rays) - they were added as a part of 1.09. 

As for 1.10, I'm not 100% sure if they're in yet, but I should imagine they will play some role in the final product. 

@Captain Kitten can elaborate a bit more 🙂

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We have had to do some changes and that is why there are little news these days. We have both Crepuscular Rays and shadow shaft abilities and it is planned to have it in the final build. But it's a matter of performance. Each effect we add have surprisingly low fps hit. But sum it up and it can get substantial.

Worst case it will be an option in a later build.

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That makes sense.  I can certainly live without them with the amount of stability and features coming our way! 🙂

Looking forward to dodging thunder heads with the new clouds.  I imagine that'll be some performance hits, but my machine is high-end for this reason!  Thanks for the response and my apologies for perhaps ranting myself on the other thread.  I'd delete it myself if I knew how or could.  @Xephyr & @Captain Kitten

Happy Flying!  

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19 minutes ago, Americanpilot89 said:

That makes sense.  I can certainly live without them with the amount of stability and features coming our way! 🙂

Looking forward to dodging thunder heads with the new clouds.  I imagine that'll be some performance hits, but my machine is high-end for this reason!  Thanks for the response and my apologies for perhaps ranting myself on the other thread.  I'd delete it myself if I knew how or could.  @Xephyr & @Captain Kitten

Happy Flying!  

Heh no worries - it’s a bit of a grey area in truth!

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Hello developers.

I hope the version 1.10 appears before xplane 12; -) ... I can only say, with the long wait and look at the many demo videos also rise the expectations. I do not know if that's really good.

greeting from google translated mike

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Hello developers,

On xEnviro 1.10 :

The airport lighting ,runways, taxiways, poles ... will be automatically activated by xEnviro calculations depending on weather conditions ?

- reduced visibility :  5 miles and less.

- rainy , snowy conditions.

- overcast layer.

- polluted atmospheric conditions.

 

 Thanks

 

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1 hour ago, john1001 said:

Hello developers,

On xEnviro 1.10 :

The airport lighting ,runways, taxiways, poles ... will be automatically activated by xEnviro calculations depending on weather conditions ?

- reduced visibility :  5 miles and less.

- rainy , snowy conditions.

- overcast layer.

- polluted atmospheric conditions.

 

 Thanks

 

XEnviro has done this since before 1.00

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Hey @Captain Kitten

Kinda wanted to hold off from asking this since Andrey must be deep in development, but I thought why not. One thing I remember you mentioning on a live stream was the test build you had didn't render haze/fog correctly from above. IE you won't notice low visibility conditions until you get further down to ground level, pretty much how it is in vanilla XP above a cloud layer. While X-Visibility does a somewhat decent job at trying to render this with the default weather engine it is nowhere near perfect and has its limitations. My question, has xE made any strides with this since those pre-beta builds? In theory it should be doable with the volumetric tech.

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Hi Magnus,

the clouds on the last pictures from b35 are really on low resolution  ? !!!

All pictures from the previous beta tests were very beautiful but those ( b35) are really not good.

I really hope you will keep the usual quality ! 

Other thing :

flight simulation is not a simple ordinary pc game and people who loves really this have to invest in correct pc specifications with modern and powerful graphic cards.

you are developers and your product can ( today ) be on a higher level on quality if the majority of customers invest on a good pc specs.

if not why do not create :

xEnviro light version for limited pc spec users and xEnviro complete version for people who have high end pc.

like that everyone will be happy and enjoy ! 

 

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On 3/8/2019 at 12:07 AM, JordanChin said:

Hey @Captain Kitten

Kinda wanted to hold off from asking this since Andrey must be deep in development, but I thought why not. One thing I remember you mentioning on a live stream was the test build you had didn't render haze/fog correctly from above. IE you won't notice low visibility conditions until you get further down to ground level, pretty much how it is in vanilla XP above a cloud layer. While X-Visibility does a somewhat decent job at trying to render this with the default weather engine it is nowhere near perfect and has its limitations. My question, has xE made any strides with this since those pre-beta builds? In theory it should be doable with the volumetric tech.

It's basically fixed. But Andrey wanted normal conditions in addition to the situations where it looks clear and all of a sudden you are in severe fog/haze. Situations like these are more common than you'd think. In any case. It's no longer an issue.

 

On 3/9/2019 at 9:38 AM, john1001 said:

Hi Magnus,

the clouds on the last pictures from b35 are really on low resolution  ? !!!

All pictures from the previous beta tests were very beautiful but those ( b35) are really not good.

I really hope you will keep the usual quality ! 

Other thing :

flight simulation is not a simple ordinary pc game and people who loves really this have to invest in correct pc specifications with modern and powerful graphic cards.

you are developers and your product can ( today ) be on a higher level on quality if the majority of customers invest on a good pc specs.

if not why do not create :

xEnviro light version for limited pc spec users and xEnviro complete version for people who have high end pc.

like that everyone will be happy and enjoy ! 

 

As I have mentioned several times other places we had to do take huge steps back due to performance issues. We will not go down the riad where visual quality trumps performance. We will keep the balance and over time visual quality will get more play room with higher performing gfx cards. And no, xEnviro will not be exclusive for only the ones who can afford the latest equipement. There are many simmers on lower end computers.

While we will have to set a lower bar, we will not sacrefice on performance. A slider is not possible in this regard. It's not how xE works. Some elements might be toggable. But we don't know what exactly will be the final options yet.

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Hi Magnus,

the winter theme is really successfuly rendered on xEnviro 1.10 , I saw also some clouds from continental and coastal climate theme (cardiff pictures). I want to ask you if possible to add some samples from Dry regions weather for example like we see on arizona or nevada state. some regions on the south of spain, high atlas on Morocco "Marrakech" and some other parts in the world.

the dry weather have its specific beautiful type of clouds generally situated between 10000 and 25000 feet and have a multiple variaties.

Thank you ,

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Hi Magnus,

I think you have enhanced water reflection and it's really beautiful on a picture.

I would like to know if on the bad weather or a windy conditions or when a height of waves is indicated, you have the possibility to add the small white dots (top of waves) ?  

/not aligned just randomly generated/

- please to see the picture attached. 

Thank you,

IMG_2062.PNG

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6 hours ago, john1001 said:

Hi Magnus,

I think you have enhanced water reflection and it's really beautiful on a picture.

I would like to know if on the bad weather or a windy conditions or when a height of waves is indicated, you have the possibility to add the small white dots (top of waves) ?  

/not aligned just randomly generated/

- please to see the picture attached. 

Thank you,

IMG_2062.PNG

It's possible, but not in any way of priority now.

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Am not sure if it is proper to post this question in this section - but here goes ::

I was analyzing the differences between the following two specific videos - basically comparing xenviro 1.10 versus new REX sky environment. (RSE)

yes i know they are different platforms - but really interested to bring this up - as i think they have lots of features in common....

.
...
versus
...
.

Based on my own observation - it seems to me that exnviro is doing a better job --- any thoughts or more educated clarification would be appreciated form the experts.

  • it seems RSE is doing for p3d -- same what xenviro is doing for xp
  • apparently both are bringing seamless live weather transformation in a transitional manner over time (to avoid sudden appearance of clouds caused by updated weather data) 
  • does xenviro 'morph' weather status gradually if it receives new weather reading to avoid non-realistic sudden appearance/disappearance of cloud objects.
  • does xenvrio affect scene color based on weather mood - as in RSE ?
  •  

Thanks

 

Edited by Bakr

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8 hours ago, Bakr said:

Am not sure if it is proper to post this question in this section - but here goes ::

I was analyzing the differences between the following two specific videos - basically comparing xenviro 1.10 versus new REX sky environment. (RSE)

yes i know they are different platforms - but really interested to bring this up - as i think they have lots of features in common....

.
...
versus
...
.

Based on my own observation - it seems to me that exnviro is doing a better job --- any thoughts or more educated clarification would be appreciated form the experts.

  • it seems RSE is doing for p3d -- same what xenviro is doing for xp
  • apparently both are bringing seamless live weather transformation in a transitional manner over time (to avoid sudden appearance of clouds caused by updated weather data) 
  • does xenviro 'morph' weather status gradually if it receives new weather reading to avoid non-realistic sudden appearance/disappearance of cloud objects.
  • does xenvrio affect scene color based on weather mood - as in RSE ?
  •  

Thanks

 

You can't compare the two. One is based on the old technology of 2d billboards simulating the effect with fading textures in and out. Done well and it looks good but not in any way comparable with true noise rendered volumetrics.

Both have pros and cons. REX will have huge resources to make crisply defined clouds. XEnviro replaces the entire atmosphere model in xplane. And replaces it with realistic molecule calculation models to allow for noise rendered volumetrics. This will have to compromise crisp visuals with performance. 

What REX calls vapor is faint images gradually becoming less transparent. XEnviro the air moisture is already present in a given volume of space (3.6 million km3) which in return reacts on the rays of the sun. In real time with smooth transitions between metar updates and sector metar data. 

Our challenge is to use the noise rendering of these calculations in a way that you have fine enough noise (resolution) but keep performance. This is where we hit a dead end and had to rethink our strategy for this release. We backed off resolution to gain performance and blurred off the grain. That is why it looks a bit like a pastel painting at the moment. 

Thing is, XEnviro is capable of rendering completely natural looking cloud definitions. Your computer is not. Not yet. But when it is, we will be there with the hight resolution version. 

 

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Am actually impressed that :

  • you have managed for "real time with smooth transitions between metar updates and sector metar data."  ⛈️
  • you have decided a no-go-back for the old school of 2d-bill-board ----- you are on the right track and made the right decision.

About the performance break-even of resolution/quality versus performance/usability - am sure the dead end frontier could be worked around in many ways today- without having to wait for relative 2nd generation hardware from today as follows:

 

Edited by Bakr
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an airplane traveling at night has higher chances of seeing bright stars in the sky dome - as the plane travels above the light-polution caused by  cities and above the clouds and air-pollution layers like those in mexico

Is XE road-map having any plans to replace depiction of night sky stars with more bright glow - as i think that is really missing as the sky seems very shallow.

already there is an addon 
https://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?/files/file/25170-star-bright-101/

but i feel that addon is just a bunch of white pixels - nothing more - it lacks feeling of deep space starry-night

image.png.ad6bf9f99f08785c2f7ba15129f2c5f1.png

image.png.0554da80edcfd57e59584c7642ac127b.png

assuming a clear sky you would be able to see these rates in principle. However, you will always be limited by the appropriately called limiting magnitude, which is a measure of sky brightness. Light pollution will prevent many objects with an insufficient magnitude to be seen. Light pollution doesn't only constitute light directly from synthetic light sources, but reflective light from the moon as well. If you view the sky in an open space with little to no light pollution, you will see about a thousand times more than when viewing the sky in a city area. Bigger meteors can be seen anywhere, but to see the smaller ones you do need to view from a dark spot. Many meteors constitute magnitude +5 or above, which require binoculars to be viewed depending on the viewing conditions.

Theoretically on perfect dark sky conditions, you could see around 45.000 stars with a magnitude of +8, whereas in practice in the center of a city, one can see only 200–500 stars of magnitude +4 or less. Stars are point sources of light and as such they can be seen at a lower magnitude than meteors of the same magnitude, which spread the light. But the difference in stars between perfect viewing conditions and inner city viewing conditions is 99,56–98,89%. As such, you can also expect the total number of meteors seen (whether during a meteor shower or a conventional night) to drop dramatically in correlation with the amount of light pollution.

The average sporadic meteors seen will increase over the year, with 4–8 meteors per hour in the evening and 8–16 meteors in the morning twilight by September.

https://www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoom=1&lat=2362121&lon=-456495&layers=B0FFTFFFFFT

image.png.e564c11d37454a8a897ae242018c9999.png

 

 

 

and last but not least - would be great to add more life to it by having shooting stars

 

Edited by Bakr

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It won't be anywhere near the version you whish for, or give the impression you whish for by turning a question in to a science paper. But night environment is coming in a later update. 

Rember we are dealing with xplane here. It's hard enough to try maneuvering through the mine field of rendering volumrtric clouds. 

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32 minutes ago, Captain Kitten said:

It won't be anywhere near the version you whish for, or give the impression you whish for by turning a question in to a science paper. But night environment is coming in a later update. 

Rember we are dealing with xplane here. It's hard enough to try maneuvering through the mine field of rendering volumrtric clouds. 

i can wait for a couple of years for that 😉. you are doing great and we appreciate all the hard work done.

since it is a simulation platform - there is always room for something - as far as hardware can take -- i guess we have to wait for second-gen HW. inspirations goes on.

i am a middlware developer - at least i can really appreciate the hard-work being done to make XE what it is today.

afterall, suffice and happy to hear that night environment is coming at a later update. this blends well with the product scope.

Cheers

Edited by Bakr

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Hi Magnus,

Today, I want to ask you about a subject about the environment of our flight experience.

I think it's the first time this subject is evoked.

it's a sim speed, or a sim display speed config.

I take for example a 737-800 on starting climb phase initially from160kt to 180kt. when you look on the window forward left or right you feel a lot of speed not like in real life and if you set a speed at 220kt or 240kt you feel the plane flying like a rocket.

I think the problem that the atmospheric and pressure conditions doesn't have any impact on a flight model of a plane.

there is only the turbulence and wind effect.

I don't know how to explain this but after many and many real life experiences and videos comparative. I'm sure that the speed rate of the x plane simulator is more faster than a real life speed sim rate. 

Other thing please, is it possible to add micro turbulence in places where no turbulence is reported, because in real life there's no linear vertical flight at 100%.

there's always a micro turbulence from 0.03 to 0.07 max for feeling that we are flying.

what do you think Magnus about this ? 

 

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